Why I Don’t Regret Getting Straight A’s in College
Dangerous Ideas December 5th. 2007, 3:48pmJon Dismisses Grades
Yesterday, Jon Morrow wrote a guest post on the Brazen Careerist blog. It was titled: Why I Regret Getting Straight-A’s in College. It subsequently got picked up by Life Hacker, and, as you might imagine, has since been making the rounds.
In light of my experience with this issue, I want to offer a rebuttal. I don’t agree with Jon. But I do like his post. It is well-reasoned and rational — a perfect starting place for a polite, insightful debate.
Five Reasons Why Jon Regrets Getting Straight-A’s
Jon lists five main reasons why he regrets getting straight-A’s in college:
- “No one has ever asked about my GPA.“
- “I didn’t sleep.“
- “I’ve forgotten 95% of it.“
- “I didn’t have time for people.”
- “Work experience is more valuable.”
For the sake of concision we can combine (2) and (4), as they both describe the same problem: good grades require too much study time. And we can also combine (1) and (5), as they both tackle the question of what matters when applying for a job. With these combinations complete, we can now tackle the main arguments in turn:
Argument #1: Employers Don’t Care About Your GPA
Jon argues:
I interviewed with lots of companies, received a total of 14 job offers after graduation, and none of the companies asked about [my GPA].
Grades are rarely discussed in job interviews. Does this mean they don’t matter? Of course not! Grades play a crucial rule in the hidden first step of the interview process: the resume screen.
When an organization has a competitive entry level position open, they are going to receive resumes from more candidates than they have time to interview. Accordingly, they perform a quick triage. Their focus: where you went to school, your grades, and, if relevant, work experience. If your grades are low, you will probably get tossed aside without ever being granted an interview.
The reason employers don’t bring up your grades in an interview is because there is no need. They already know your GPA. It’s a big reason why they agreed to interview you. Now it’s time to move beyond your marks and convince them you have the other skills necessary to be a good hire.
This reality does not just apply to investment banks and consulting firms. Almost any company that is hiring an entry level position needs some method of triage. This includes non-profit organizations. Do you want to save the world? Or join Teach for America? You better have a good GPA. These do-gooder firms are notorious for screening entry-level resumes on grades. (They get a lot of applicants, they can afford to choose the best.)
In short: a mediocre GPA will close a lot a entry level doors. Unless you are definite that you want a job in an industry that does not care at all about GPA (for example, the freelance writing gig mentioned by Jon in the post), you should think twice before drastically narrowing your options with a low average.
Argument #2: Getting Straight-A’s Devours Your Free Time
Jon argues:
Unless you’re a super genius, getting 37 A’s is hard work…I had lots of opportunities to build a huge network. But I didn’t have time.
This is an argument I hear frequently. It’s 100% false. It pops up so often because it is built upon the deceptively appealing logical fallacy of the false dichotomy. Jon implicitly assumes the following choice:
- Work 60-100 hours a week and score straight A’s.
- Work much less and score mainly B’s.
Faced with this choice, (2) is the obvious way to go. Working 100 hours a week in college would be terrible! But this dichotomy assumes that grades are mainly a function of how many hours you spend. As loyal Study Hacks readers know, this is false. Your grades are a combination of: how you study, your energy when you study, and time spent. Smart strategies for the first two can keep the third really small.
Case in point: I studied much less than most people I knew in college, but my GPA was higher than Jon’s, who, as he describes, was “obsessed” with getting an A+ on every assignment. Most students who e-mail me success stories, emphasize not just that their grades are higher, but that they are studying much less now that they’ve cleaned up their habits. The real choice is:
- Study with bad habits for 60 - 100 hours a week and get A’s.
- Study with good habits for much less time and get A’s.
- Study with bad habits for much less time and get B’s.
Faced with this more accurate choice, (2) becomes the best option. What Jon really regrets is having terrible study habits that ate up all his time. The goal of getting good grades is not to blame. Focus on being efficient to solve the problem.
Argument #3: I’ve Forgotten 95% of It
Jon argues:
I majored in English Literature and minored in Communication Theory…I spent all my time reading classic literature and memorizing vague, pseudoscientific communication theories. Neither are useful at all, and I’ve forgotten at least 95% of it.
College is not vocational school. Its mission is rooted in enlightenment thinking: By being exposed to great minds you become a better citizen of the world. True, you will probably never need to explicitly discuss much of what you read from the Western Canon. But there is a reason why we have been studying these books for the last 300 years. They equip you to tackle life. They add nuance to your understanding of ethics and morality. They complicate your view of the human condition. They change your reception of the signal of life experience from black and white to HD.
The same holds true for social science and physical sciences. You might not use a specific communication theory, but you have learned to view information flow in a more critical, nuanced light. Do you really think 18-year-old Jon is equally equipped to tackle life as 22-year-old college graduate Jon? Or did four years of exposure to the detailed thinking of smart minds perhaps facilitate some mental maturing — even if you didn’t agree with everything you learned.
In the end, however, I’m not qualified to provide a great defense for the liberal arts. For this, I should defer to those that have done so with informed eloquence.
Conclusion
I appreciate Jon’s thoughtful essay. We differ because of the following three observations that I hold to be true:
- For a large number of entry-level jobs, your GPA does matter.
- Getting good grades does not require you to work more than most students.
TheirThere is a value to learning things that you don’t have immediate practical use for.
If you agree with these observations, then you fall into my pro-grades camp. If you believe them flawed, Jon’s conclusion will seem more rational. Either way, it’s nice to have the opportunity to engage in well-reasoned debate on the topic.
What are your thoughts? Do you regret trying to score good grades?
December 5th, 2007 at 4:45 pm
Great arguments! hats down…
I’m currently studying to obtain straight A’s because the efforts I give off during college, the discipline and time management skills I acquire, the efforts I put in, the smart study techniques I develop are all important skills that will serve me off later when I’ll be working full-time. I highly doubt you will be able to invest that same amount of energy in your work if you were slacking in college.
December 5th, 2007 at 5:24 pm
Gyanish,
That’s a good additional point. College is a good laboratory to develop organizational skills that will serve you later. As you argue, these skills are harder to pick up later in life once you’re set in your ways.
- Cal
December 5th, 2007 at 6:06 pm
I would add one place that grades will matter, even with experience. Graduate School.
You may not know today that you want to get an MBA or other professional degree, but when you apply your GPA will once again matter. Yes, you can always find a lesser school that will take a lower GPA, but that has long term effects on your earning potential and your career path.
The fact is that your life will change. You may say NOW that once you finish you are done for good, but as a 41 year old graduate student I can tell you that isn’t necessarily true. What you want, what you need to know and how you want to live your life will change over time, and the last thing you want is for your GPA to be the difference between changing your life and being stuck.
December 5th, 2007 at 6:21 pm
Rebecca,
Great point. In fairness, Jon did mention that grades matter for graduate school. But it’s worth noting, as you do, that even if you don’t think, at 19, that you’ll go to graduate school, that might change at 40. That’s a real hard possibility to rule out for sure!
- Cal
December 5th, 2007 at 10:28 pm
I totally agree. People who dropped out of school recognize how much of a joke the public school system is. Now they’re richer than us. They could be bums and still be richer than us, cause they dont have any debt.
-Diana
December 6th, 2007 at 12:47 am
Masterful arguments! I love the post Cal … and you are my favourite blogger! I consider your argument #3 especially important for gaining the right perspective on why to spend time and effort studying various subjects, even though studying them may seemingly have “marginal impact” on the career. The time and effort spent contribute to the treasury of (let’s tentatively call it subconscious) mind, which ultimately shapes our perceptions and guides our actions. Therefore, the impact of studying various subjects at the college, and studying well I mean, does not only expand our career possibilities, but also our decisions and choices in life.
I shall admit though, that I was selective in getting the highest grades in subjects that were interesting to me and the ones I considered important for my future career and employees, while maintaining reasonable status quo on less “interesting” subjects. This allowed me to have lots of fun and be the party animal. However, looking back I think that I should have put more effort, because whatever was my weakness back then I am paying off by more effort now in the graduate school.
Keep up your fantastic work. I am looking forward to buy a copy of your book early 2008.
December 7th, 2007 at 5:25 pm
[…] Why I regret getting straight A’s in college and Cal from Study Hacks wrote a rebuttal post, Why I Don’t Regret Getting Straight A’s in College. There’s an equal number of reasons for both sides of the argument, but my two cents is that […]
December 11th, 2007 at 1:27 am
Your priorities for company resume selection are way off. From my experience work experience ALWAYS comes first. Second is grades, but even then employers tend to care more about the GPA for your major.
I agree with your number 2, but that only works in certain majors. In others such as the design majors or computer science the difference between an A and a B can be 20 hours or more.
And number 3 applies to those who don’t get straight A’s as well
December 17th, 2007 at 7:50 pm
Durp:
It’s unclear to me how much relevant work experience a recent college graduate can have? Sure, it helps to intern in the industry during an off-semester. But everyone can do that.
In terms of number 2, I was a computer science major. A good proportion of the 50 straight-A students interviewed for my second book were science or engineering majors. It’s definitely possible to do well without eating up all your free time!
I agree with you on 3. But I think Jon was using it as an excuse to stop trying in class…
- Cal
January 8th, 2008 at 3:30 am
I’d have to agree with Jon. I got a 3.0 in college. As for the first point. My first job after college was to be a marketing manager and I was put in charge of a major program. Now with that being said, the time that I saved by not studying as much (and I definately did save a lot of time), I applied to build up a fantastic resume upon graduation. This was MUCH more valuable than my peers who had a 4.0.
I agree that getting a 4.0 is not a waste because even though you don’t remember it all you are more well rounded, but I feel that I have the same problem solving and learning ability as someone who did get the 4.0
All in all, I much happier that I had more fun, did what I wanted, and got the 3.0 Worked out much better in the long run since I got the best job out of all my friends.
January 8th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
It’s hard to take seriously a piece on the value of education when they use the wrong there/their/they’re:
“Their is a value to learning things that you don’t have immediate practical use for.”
How about “There is a value…”
If your GPA is over 3.0 you should put it on your résumé instead of being asked what it is later.
January 8th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
@Dan
I think the key assumption here is that getting a 4.0 has to require working a lot more. I don’t doubt this was the case for you, and most people, based on their study habits. But, as we discuss on this blog, by changing study habits, it’s actually possible to get close to the big four-oh without a significant increase in time spent.
@Greg
I have to write these pretty quickly. But thanks for noting the error. I agree on placing the GPA on the resume. My understanding is this expected.
January 9th, 2008 at 12:57 am
You’re assuming the person doesn’t already have good study habits. If they do, a person with good study habits aiming for B’s is still likely to be spending significantly less time than someone aiming for all A’s. Your argument is that good study habits means aiming for A’s won’t kill you, but that really varies from school to school, major to major, and class to class. For example, a valid argument in my school for a Biomedical Engineering major was that a student with bad study habits studying for 60 hours will probably flunk out, while a student that studied for 60 hours with good study habits will probably get B’s. Getting straight A’s, and believe me, no one got straight A’s, would easily require 100+ hours and a little bit of luck and genius.
Same argument can be made against your 3rd argument, that 22 year old college Jon that worked hard is more equipped than 18 year old Jon that didn’t go to college. Of course he is! He’s four years older for god’s sake. Hopefully however, 18 year old non-college Jon also didn’t sit on his butt for four years. When he hits 22, he should have learned something in his own way. True, it’s unlikely that he’d been in the same environment as the college boy, but history has shown that people have done great things in those four years instead of college. This we see all the time… where little naive sheltered 22yr old college Jon knows a lot less about real life than 22yr old non-college Jon who made good use of his four years.
January 13th, 2008 at 4:47 am
It is true. I work for an employer and for many entry level positions we not only look at the GPA, we require copies of transcripts. We also look at ACT and SAT scores. We use those as a first level of rejection or acceptance for an interview time slot. It is common practice for on-campus interviewing.
January 13th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
@Rob:
Science majors can be more time consuming. But I’ve worked with students at the most demanding majors at the most demanding schools in the world, and observed that with the right habits it is definitely possible to get great grades while working less than your average peer. (Though, of course, the hours of work of the average student at a school like MIT will be more than the work of an average student at the Sam Houston Institute of Technology. But relative differences seem to make more of an impact on quality of life than absolute differences.)
To your second point, let me clarify. In my reasoning, 22-year-old college graduate Jon is better equipped to face the world than 22-year-old “spent 4 years in a job that doesn’t require a college degree” Jon. But you’re right. It’s debatable. And certainly, the properly motivated young man can do better out in the real world as compared to the wayward youth who burns out in the frat basement for four years. But the type of personality that would do great in four years on his own would do even better if also given access to the intellectual resources of a college campus.
January 13th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
@rhiannonsmum:
Thanks for the insider insight. For reasons like these, I think Jay has to give his straight-A performance I lot more credit than he would like for the amazing crop of job interviews he scared up.